Comments on Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media worldTypePad2007-11-29T09:23:29ZEwan McIntoshhttps://edu.blogs.com/edublogs/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://edu.blogs.com/edublogs/2007/11/education-unb-1/comments/atom.xml/NeededPills commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e2011168cbc298970c2009-03-08T15:49:18Z2009-03-08T15:49:18ZNeededPillshttp://NeededPills.com/Category Allergy http://neededpills.com/order_allergy_en-us.html Allergy is a condition of a living organism in which it reacts to a certain compound or...<p>Category Allergy<br />
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<p>Good to read your article, but I feel that your comparison of Web2.0 with VLEs is like comparing chalk and cheese. They have very different functions and functionalities.</p>
<p>Perhaps the most significant point is that Web2.0 is far more accessible and intuitive than such VLEs as are actually running properly at this time.</p>
<p>When, eventually, VLEs become ubiquitous (and they will) first of all teachers and students will have to spend some time getting familiar with all the potential services that we are promised. Secondly, teachers will have their work cut out, possibly for several years in some cases, discovering how VLEs will revolutionise Teaching and Learning.</p>
<p>Eventually, all VLEs (not just those designed by DIY enthusiasts) will provide the connectivity to appropriate Web2.0 and Web3.0 applications and resources.</p>Eylan Ezekiel commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e200e54f95aaaa88332007-12-04T09:23:05Z2007-12-04T09:23:05ZEylan Ezekielhttp://blog.ezekiels.co.ukMy blog is working again - so those 'Glass Ceiling' posts are accessible again. http://blog.ezekiels.co.uk/blog/_archives/2007/7/23/3112653.html http://blog.ezekiels.co.uk/blog/_archives/2007/7/24/3114679.html http://blog.ezekiels.co.uk/blog/_archives/2007/8/6/3141948.html Expect some specific...<p>My blog is working again - so those 'Glass Ceiling' posts are accessible again.</p>
<p>http://blog.ezekiels.co.uk/blog/_archives/2007/7/23/3112653.html<br />
http://blog.ezekiels.co.uk/blog/_archives/2007/7/24/3114679.html<br />
http://blog.ezekiels.co.uk/blog/_archives/2007/8/6/3141948.html</p>
<p>Expect some specific replies to Ewan's points on the blog over the next few weeks.</p>Ewan McIntosh commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e200e54f947dd888332007-12-03T14:53:36Z2007-12-03T14:53:36ZEwan McIntoshhttp://edu.blogs.comHi Sheila, I don't ignore primary schools at all, and in the panel referred almost exclusively to primary school examples....<p>Hi Sheila,</p>
<p>I don't ignore primary schools at all, and in the panel referred almost exclusively to primary school examples. I'm also well aware of the need for good 'face-to-face' resources for all teachers, but given the title of the debate, we're looking at one area of resourcing and publishing in particular, not the whole range of things that teachers need to use in their daily toolkit for teaching.</p>
<p>If you wish to visit schools with dance mats or wiis then please do just come to Scotland where the investments has been made, by schools themselves, and, in England, you'll find plenty of languages classrooms using Sonica Spanish and others using RM products that allow dance mat games to be used in other areas.</p>
<p>Again, it's not because you don't see it that it's not there, nor that you should not think about innovating in that area. I find these arguments almost anti-innovative.</p>
<p>We do have one thing in common - we both help schools with what they have. What I would like to see is the vast majority of publishers starting to take the lead instead, as you put it, lag behind schools. I think the will and desire in schools is there, and the trick is finding sustainable means of supporting it.</p>Sheila Ebbutt commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e200e54fa7e55588342007-12-03T13:36:34Z2007-12-03T13:36:35ZSheila Ebbutthttp://www.beam.co.ukHi Ewan I was at the Education Unbound debate last week. In your blog you seem to be addressing secondary...<p>Hi Ewan</p>
<p>I was at the Education Unbound debate last week.</p>
<p>In your blog you seem to be addressing secondary school teachers. Don't you have an audience of teachers in primary schools as well? If so, you need to be more aware of that audience's needs. You also assume that all educational publishers operate in the same way. They don't.</p>
<p>BEAM (BE A Mathematician) is a specialist educational publisher that provides resources and support about how to teach maths in primary schools. We provide innovative and informed resources for both children and teachers, including both published games and interactive games on CD-ROMs. We also publish interactive whiteboard resources to help teachers teach, alongside good quality resources for children to use in the classroom. We've produced two CD-ROMs of maths raps that are stunningly good.</p>
<p>You say that so many resources can be accessed online. That is true in some ways, if you know where to look, but it is less true for primary schools. You cannot replace good board or card games with downloaded and printed. You cannot download real objects, or well-designed material that children need to handle. You forget that primary age children need to use and manipulate real things in their learning. You cannot feed them a diet of badly designed and poorly edited downloadables. Primary school children don't have easy access to computers at the moment – they have timetabled sessions, and then they have to share as pairs if they are lucky. So you cannot easily organise for them to browse through online material. Not all primary age children have access to computers at home. So you have to cater for all needs, all situations.</p>
<p>We are aware of the ICT skills and knowledge of children, even as young as 3. The debate at Education Unbound has made us think more about the potential of using a wider range of the technology available, and the much more flexible and creative style of learning that children have when they use this technology. </p>
<p>We work closely with schools on developing our materials, and we are constantly made aware of the limitations within which schools operate. We had, for example, planned to produce some interactive programmes for young children where they could count and dance using dance mats. We can see how you could use a Wii so effectively for active maths learning. But you find me a school that has a dance mat or a Wii. We can only produce resources for technology that schools actually have. Schools lag behind current thinking. Educational publishers tend to lag behind schools. Well, we at BEAM like to think that we lead schools in their maths thinking, but we can only use the technology they have.</p>
<p>We are interested in exploring ideas about the innovative use of technology in primary schools for the technology that schools have now or will have in the near future.</p>Eylan Ezekiel commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e200e54f93331788332007-12-01T11:30:11Z2007-12-01T11:30:11ZEylan Ezekielhttp://blog.ezekiels.co.ukI can summarise my reaction to this post very quicky - Hell YES! My blog is broken at the moment...<p>I can summarise my reaction to this post very quicky - Hell YES!</p>
<p>My blog is broken at the moment (due to bandwidth piracy) - so the link to my many posts on these very points are not working at the moment.</p>
<p>Thanks also to Mark B for making this connection between us.</p>
<p>Ewan - the answers to your plea for change are beginning to appear, if slowly.</p>
<p>Intiatives, such as ODE at Pearson, show that even the biggest publishers are trying to adapt.</p>
<p>The blocks are not just within industry. All the 'stakeholders' (as Stephen calls them) in our world of education need a clear imperative to change.</p>
<p>One of my clients, at them moment, is Oxfam Education, and this non-commerical organisation is struggling with exactly the same problems of perception as those that chase the profit margin.</p>
<p>I am not going to use this space to list them all here - as my blog should be working soon, and you could read them there. </p>
<p>It is as much up to us to find common cause for these different perspectives - and I would love to be part of the 'Digital Subversives' trial that Stephen suggested. I could get lots of publishers involved, a fair amount of authors, and maybe a few policy makers along. </p>
<p>I think what we need is to prove a complete publishing model, from idea to a final resource - that does not depend on traditional assumptions.</p>
<p>Mark and I have been working on a plan for a few months now - and I am involved in a project that might help make this a reality - called ODE (blog.odeworld.co.uk). </p>
<p>If you, or any one else reading, wants to make this revolution a reality, let's stop talking, and do it! Get in touch eylan@ezekiels.co.uk</p>john west commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e200e54f91100888332007-11-29T18:45:43Z2007-11-29T18:45:44Zjohn westhttp://johnwest.edublogs.org......should have said that I am commenting on the situation from a New Zealand perspective.<p>......should have said that I am commenting on the situation from a New Zealand perspective.</p>john west commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e200e54fa424f288342007-11-29T18:41:21Z2007-11-29T18:41:22Zjohn westhttp://johnwest.edublogs.orgHi Ewan, Would prefer to be a retailer than a charitable middleman/distribution outlet. Teachers have always bought in bulk direct...<p>Hi Ewan,</p>
<p>Would prefer to be a retailer than a charitable middleman/distribution outlet. Teachers have always bought in bulk direct from the publisher to get the best deal for their students. This requires a lot of work as they have to hound slow paying families for money not the school. The cost of unsold non returnable books has in the past has been taken from my science budget. A win win situation for the publisher.</p>
<p>Anyone who has a bright idea to help students through exams can bombard me with information about their product and exhortations to convince the students that they should buy while I collect money and distribute for free.</p>
<p>I agree with a number of points made by the publisher above. They often produce a top quality product and in science many of the books are backed up with a DVD. The next step would be to put it all online but the usual problems of controlling copyright apply. There is a real dilemma for publishers</p>Dean Shareski commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e200e54f90f22788332007-11-29T16:32:01Z2007-11-29T16:32:01ZDean Shareskihttp://ideasandthoughts.orgIs that Canadian currency in that photo? Very colorful.<p>Is that Canadian currency in that photo? Very colorful.</p>Mark Berthelemy commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e200e54f90d54088332007-11-29T14:26:15Z2007-11-29T14:26:15ZMark Berthelemyhttp://www.learningconversations.co.ukHi Ewan, Excellent post - well argued. You need to talk to Eylan Ezekiel - he's thinking exactly along these...<p>Hi Ewan,</p>
<p>Excellent post - well argued. You need to talk to Eylan Ezekiel - he's thinking exactly along these lines: http://blog.ezekiels.co.uk/blog</p>
<p>I'll point this post out to him too.<br />
</p>Stephen Fahey commented on 'Education Unbound Unwound: Lessons for educational publishers in a social media world'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e200e54f90cc8788332007-11-29T13:38:58Z2007-11-29T13:38:58ZStephen Faheyhttp://moovl.wordpress.comEwan Thanks for a very thought-provoking post - I'm sorry I missed the Education Unbound event. I should be upfront...<p>Ewan<br />
Thanks for a very thought-provoking post - I'm sorry I missed the Education Unbound event. I should be upfront and say that I'm one of 'them upstairs' at an educational publisher.</p>
<p>I think first of all, I'd challenge your assertion that publishing is one of the few industries to have a 'middleman' between its products and consumers. On the contrary, I might go as far as to say this is the norm (most of my personal purchases go through a retailer, either on the high-street or online; and most of my business purchases are made on my behalf, eg IT procurement). In addition, not everything created by a publisher IS for the student - much of it is for direct use by the teacher.</p>
<p>I think secondly I would distinguish between a 'market' and a 'community'. I totally agree that more learning communities are a good thing, and that we will see more of them. I doubt whether most commercial publishers will see them as a revenue opportunity (and perhaps nor should they).</p>
<p>Finally, I'd like to say that 'traditional' publishing tends to support the 'core' demands placed on schools. Whether we like it or not, the bulk of resource spend is on supporting qualifications in core subjects. And that's where any sensible business will focus its investment.</p>
<p>However, I definitely don't want to sound complacent, and I do think there's a social shift happening that not all publishers will keep up with. Personally I'd like to see more small-scale experimentation/piloting with groups of key stakeholders, including publishers. By and large these will happen because a few committed inidividuals in the industry (probably not senior managers) will make it their business to engage. Digital subversives, perhaps?</p>