Comments on Four pointers to the chasm between elearning and video game designersTypePad2010-01-04T11:35:14ZEwan McIntoshhttps://edu.blogs.com/edublogs/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://edu.blogs.com/edublogs/2010/01/elearning-video-game-designers/comments/atom.xml/Joannejacobs commented on 'Four pointers to the chasm between elearning and video game designers'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e2012876c56a80970c2010-01-11T14:53:42Z2014-02-11T11:11:43ZJoannejacobshttp://profile.typepad.com/joannejacobsI get worried about generalisations about both educators and game designers. Most educators I've come across are not so 2-dimensional...<p>I get worried about generalisations about both educators and game designers. Most educators I've come across are not so 2-dimensional as to believe those e-learning design principles that Dunn cites. And most gamers and video game designers I know are not resistant to social gaming. </p>
<p>But the problem I see with the Govt example you raise Ewan, is neither with e-learning designers or game designers, but rather with supplier contracts for government software application development, and with the expectations of the government clients for 'appropriate' content. The former requires application developers to go through an extraordinary process to qualify as a preferred supplier of government services, and the latter is a problem that's associated with pre-conceived notions about appearance, rather than results of interaction. </p>
<p>I agree absolutely that the identified 'chasm' can be bridged between e-learning and game designers (and interaction design is the logical instrument to bridge that gap). But the dual barriers of preferred supplier status and brand 'integrity' combine to create a much more formidable chasm than anything associated with design.</p>Jonkaye commented on 'Four pointers to the chasm between elearning and video game designers'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e2012876af9a9a970c2010-01-06T17:19:38Z2011-01-02T12:42:17ZJonkayehttp://profile.typepad.com/jonkayeExcellent, concise post about these important differences. Of course the e-learning designer perspective is somewhat stereotypical, but I completely agree...<p>Excellent, concise post about these important differences.</p>
<p>Of course the e-learning designer perspective is somewhat stereotypical, but I completely agree that your analysis applies to the vast majority of e-learning being produced today (and yesterday, and the day before, and so on, and probably into the future as well).</p>
<p>I have found that when trainers are responsible for directing the output, the focus shifts from 'can the learner perform' to 'the learner needs to know about such-and-such'. Even the tests created reflect this objective: mostly recall of information presented during the training.</p>
<p>When I consult with clients about producing training for equipment (and now product marketing), I am constantly running into the traditional mindset about simply presenting the facts. Boring, and most importantly, difficult to apply in the field!</p>
<p>Rather, present materials in a challenge format, and remediate in several stages if the learner is not getting it.</p>
<p>To be an even-handed basher (not just e-learning designers), I should point out the video game creators and technology enthusiasts tend to swing too far the other way. My feeling is that they need to inject too much entertainment or technology, which, if not designed properly instructionally, can weaken the learning.</p>
<p>I've also talked with several manufacturers who want to create "games" to engage and teach customers, but they put the fun and interactive part over the learning objectives. For example, a game that features a product, but the use of that manufacturer's product is incidental -- it could be any of their competitors as well. Who remembers the 'viral videos' like the make-your-elven-head (I think Office Depot, or OfficeMax) but people forgot who it was produced for, or even thought it was made by a competitor (Staples)?</p>
<p>In any event, great insight and great post. Thanks!</p>dianne commented on 'Four pointers to the chasm between elearning and video game designers'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e2012876af9631970c2010-01-06T17:15:08Z2010-01-06T17:15:08ZdianneInteresting post, though I might hedge this by saying "bad e-Learning designers" believe those things.<p>Interesting post, though I might hedge this by saying "bad e-Learning designers" believe those things.</p>tyLucy commented on 'Four pointers to the chasm between elearning and video game designers'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e20120a7aba8aa970b2010-01-06T08:08:58Z2010-01-06T08:08:58ZtyLucyhttp://www.topthesis.comTo compose the dissertation form just about this topic wasn’t effortless but you cope with that. If any single writer...<p>To compose the dissertation form just about this topic wasn’t effortless but you cope with that. If any single writer was as good as you are, people would ne'er have got problems with the <a href="http://www.topthesis.com" rel="nofollow">thesis writing service</a>. </p>Shamima Sultana commented on 'Four pointers to the chasm between elearning and video game designers'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e20120a7a6be52970b2010-01-05T09:19:28Z2010-01-05T09:19:28ZShamima Sultanahttp://www.clippingimages.comNice post...thanks for sharing<p>Nice post...thanks for sharing</p>Ewan McIntosh commented on 'Four pointers to the chasm between elearning and video game designers'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e20120a7a67295970b2010-01-05T07:16:48Z2010-01-05T07:16:48ZEwan McIntoshhttp://edu.blogs.comYou can never say as sales figures are commercially sensitive and Apple doesn't publish them. However, YouBooze got into the...<p>You can never say as sales figures are commercially sensitive and Apple doesn't publish them. However, YouBooze got into the top 20 paid health apps, and the NHS app headed the free apps. Free apps always generally download more than paid, of course, so yes - there's a distortion of the market.</p>chris commented on 'Four pointers to the chasm between elearning and video game designers'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e20120a7a4c219970b2010-01-04T22:56:17Z2010-01-04T22:56:17Zchrishttp://blethers.blogspot.comI was wondering how that government app compared. Is it affecting uptake of the pay-for one?<p>I was wondering how that government app compared. Is it affecting uptake of the pay-for one?</p>Andy Tedd commented on 'Four pointers to the chasm between elearning and video game designers'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d83451f00f69e20120a7a30b46970b2010-01-04T17:14:50Z2010-01-04T17:14:50ZAndy Teddhttp://andytedd.wordpress.comTrouble was in the past if you created elearning that was a game, you would win awards (proper ones like...<p>Trouble was in the past if you created elearning that was a game, you would win awards (proper ones like BAFTA, not elearning universe) and the kudos of cool people, but no fecker would buy it and you went bust or very nearly. So elearning designers having had their hands put in the fire and knowing all about Kolb, didn't do it again.</p>
<p>Now, as people are finally getting the next/net gen shift etc there is a bit more scope and some companies eg 02 use things which look like the Sims much more than elearning.</p>
<p>But even if you are doing stuff for a more conservative buyer, er audience, there is no reason not to give stuff an emotional context, angle, attitude, narrative, make it difficult and even dare I say it, funny. </p>
<p>Indeed if you are doing stuff for a smart or busy audience it is the only way you will get them to look at it.</p>
<p>If I was bold I would say the difference is much more simple than Patrick's 4 points, it is merely that elearning is a mirror of the people who design and buy it, and games are the same.</p>